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Kooky Official Conspiracy Theory Supporters Don’t Even Know They Are Conspiracy Theorists

2011/09/10
(This is based on my reply to a post by someone anonymously named ‘smokeeater’ in a forum at BodyBuilders.com.)
Quote Originally Posted by smokeaterView Post
Yes, but how many of the CT crowd have formed their opinions based on something other than a youtube video or something they saw on a private internet page somewhere. Many have seen a bit of the CT material and basically said “well, that’s good enough for me, I’m sold”.

Yeah, that fits, if by the “CT crowd”, you are referring to the official conspiracy theory (OCT) crowd. And you probably know that the official conspiracy theory (the one about 19 Arab hijackers who conspired to outsmart NORAD, FAA, CIA, FBI, etc etc) wasn’t even on YouTube until years later, but it got plastered all over the mainstream media. Many people sitting at home watching TV or reading Time magazine might have seen a bit of this OCT material and basically said “well, that’s good enough for me, I’m sold”. Just like you said. You are so right!

So many out there cannot argue the points of a conspiracy theory, they must link to work that somebody else has done. Citing a source is fine, but not in lieu of your own ability to understand it.

Right again. So many OCT guys are just repeating standard arguments they pick up from places like Popular Mechanics without really understanding it enough to see how totally irrelevant it is, being filled to the brim with strawman arguments, or maybe for PM, they should be called Tinman arguments. Heh! (Check out David Ray Griffin’s presentation  (based on his book) Debunking 9/11 Debunking – Let’s Get Empirical)

If you suggest a controlled demolition, thermite, or whatever then you should be able to explain it yourself.

Damn straight. We should all know enough physics and chemistry to understand what this is all about. Anyone who doesn’t, shouldn’t be allowed to have an opinion, and shouldn’t be allowed to refer to sources they trust. What good is trust anymore, after all?

If you can’t that leads me to question the depth of knowledge a person has on the subject.

Exactly. What we see that passes for real understanding of these complex issues is slight-of-hand trickery, obfuscation, appeals to authority, armies of strawmen, and no end of ad hominem denigration. Very immature, except it is done with an overgrown-bully attitude, and it seems they believe they have enough resources to perpetuate their OCT nonsense as long as they want to.

They must know it has to end some time, and the truth will come out eventually, so I don’t understand what they are thinking. I bet most of them are just doing their jobs, defending what they have always believed in, not risking looking too deeply into what might really be happening, or whether their boss or leader or chief or whoever they owe their allegiance to really has their best interests at heart, or that of the country or the world. Just doing their jobs. Who can blame them?

I don’t tend to get invested in these discussions anymore, to the point where I type of exceedingly detailed explanations of why things are the way they are. Because the majority of the time my 2000 word post is met with a link to a youtube clip and a comment something to the nature of “explain that”.

How ungenerous of some people not to take the time to deal with your points one at a time, really treating them with all the respect they deserve. I encourage you to keep trying, though. Maybe find a different group of people to interact with, people who will work with you to build a mutual understanding of how we determine what must be true or false, and what needs further investigation.

Can the 78% of people on this poll argue the merits of a conspiracy theory without linking to a youtube clip or website somewhere to do the explaning for them? In my experiences, the vast majority have not demonstrated their ability or willingness to do so. And if you can’t argue your own point effectively, how complete is your information and knowldge base?

Not sure about those numbers, but I know what you mean. I bet most people who naively believe the OCT (which, sadly, might be about 50% of the US) couldn’t give you more than the talking points, even if you waterboarded them, and we don’t get much more than gussied up talking points from those who are actively promoting it.

Fortunately, I don’t have a conspiracy theory, and that is true of most of the people I respect in the Truth Community, so we don’t have to feel pressured into making one up, despite doggedly persistent attempts to drag one out of us by those attempting to paint us as the conspiracy theorists.  It doesn’t matter if we don’t offer a conspiracy theory, however, because they just call us conspiracy theorists anyway.

But isn’t it curious that this is mostly done by OCTers, as if they don’t want to be caught having the only looney conspiracy theory? It appears they even help create some alternative looney conspiracy theories (e.g. no planes and energy weapons) just to muddy the waters and keep the naive OCT believers in the dark.

And it gets more bizarre. The guys with a bona fide conspiracy theory, the OCT, not only deny it even is a conspiracy theory, they then turn around and call those of us with no conspiracy theory the conspiracy theorists. How crazy is that?!

This can obviously apply to both sides.

Wait a second. Do you think that the too-small number of us in the Truth Community might have lives and jobs, and other concerns about the world occupying our time, and we weren’t all raised to think like scientists? I suppose that could be true, just as it is true that most OCTers don’t have time to really figure all this out, and most don’t really want to be bothered. I’ve even heard some say, after I seemed to be making some headway: “Even if it is true, I don’t believe it.”

When OCT promoters embody a more advanced form of this naive denial, it becomes something like “Even if you think you have proof, there must be something wrong with it, because you’re all just a bunch of looney conspiracy theorists.” What are we going to do with irrationality so thick there is no room for awareness of how irrational it has become?

The topic I often get a bit of a laugh about is regarding controlled demolition. Many people believe this is what happened, but few have even a primitive understanding of it. They see a youtube clip and say “that looks similar, it must have been that”.

Here I have to disagree. I would say that most people do have the appropriate primitive understanding of what they are seeing when a building comes down in free fall. That primitive understanding is what you get when you jump from some height, and experience a bit of free fall yourself. You may feel that sudden shock of being weightless, having no resistance below you to slow your fall. But as soon as you hit the ground, then you learn a few more, harder lessons about action and reaction, elastic and inelastic collisions, and friction.

And I believe people also have the appropriate primitive understanding that allows us to generalize from a large number of similar instances, usually correctly. If every time we see something that looks like a controlled demolition, we are told that it is indeed a controlled demolition, then we build a strong intuition that tells us all things that look like controlled demolitions really are. When has this intuition ever been proven wrong? Supposedly on 9/11, or so say the OCTers. (“This is an Orange“)

Do they look into how demo is done? Do they look at the materials, how the explosives are laid out, how the trigger systems operate, how few people in the world actually have the credentials to bring down 2 100 story buildings, etc. Or have they just accepted somebody else’s conclusion without doing their own homework?

Hey, now you’re talking like one of those OCTers. You’re being sarcastic, right?

Here you are making the case that we should ignore what we see, and just believe the authorities when they say something is impossible. They know better than we do, after all. Don’t bother measuring the velocity and acceleration of falling buildings to determine what MUST be happening based on simple physics. Don’t bother examining the debris and looking at the dust in case there might be evidence of some kind of explosives or other ways to execute a controlled demolition, because, as we were told: Why waste your time looking for something that is not there?

Pretty funny stuff. You almost had me going there for a second.

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